Home › Forums › Feeding Issues › MSPI › MSPI symptoms?
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March 24, 2010 at 11:31 pm #66100AnonymousInactive
I’m new to the forum and the whole MSPI thing, and confused – sorry this turned out so long! DS is 10 weeks, EBF, and has had reflux since birth – never particularly severe, moderate amount of spit-up and occasional crying/arching of back after feeds, didn’t like to be lying flat, also had nasal congestion since birth that’s worse in the mornings, but usually clears up during the day and with some saline solution. He’s been gaining weight and fine otherwise so dr said this type of reflux is normal and to just wait it out. From about 5 weeks it seems to have been getting better – less spitting up, less fussiness. He then had a cold at 6 weeks with congestion lasting about a week and a half, but during this time he’s practically stopped spitting up. And then at 8 weeks, all of a sudden his poops went from textbook yellow and seedy “cottage cheese” consistency, to much runnier with a a bit of mucusy green mixed in. Right in the next two days his reflux suddenly also returned full force – he became much fussier, in pain, and was spitting up loads of thick, mucusy spit-up. I freaked and started googling, which is how I found out about MSPI – silly me, I’ve been watching things like chocolate and nuts in my diet, but for some reason have never heard of dairy being allergenic and was eating lots of it. I have since spoken to three drs and my midwife and they all told me that it’s not likely to be an intolerance issue, and that especially processed things like cheese, yogurt and dairy in baked foods should be fine. Their main criteria was that he was behaving fine, gaining well, and didn’t display obvious symptoms or distress.
After those first two days his reflux and fussiness started getting better again; I’ve cut out milk but kept eating a bit of my favorite full-fat organic plain yogurt that a real staple for me, as well as a little bit of cheese (1/2 slice a day). The greenish poop stayed for about a week, then, a couple of days after cutting out the milk, changed back to mostly yellow, but still runny, with much fewer ‘seeds’, and somewhat mucusy. In the last two days though he’s had a couple of small poops that were mainly green, although my diet hasn’t changed. Again, neither dr recommended a dairy-free diet for me based on the stool alone, but I’ve requested an occult blood test and am now waiting for the results hoping for negative.
Other than the poop, he’s pretty happy, content, has not been refluxing much at all lately – a major difference from the first few weeks when he was spitting up every feed – has never been particularly gassy, and is not very fussy at all, usually just crying when he’s tired or needs a burp, and always calms down at the breast. He’s got a few spots of baby acne that pop up and cradle cap, and his butt is a bit red but not like a bright ring, I don’t think – don’t know if any of this is related at all since they all seem very common baby issues.
So I guess my question is, based on the mucusy poop alone as a symptom, does this sound like MSPI? It’s not like big globs of mucus or anything either, it’s just a bit stringy and runnier than it used to be, like the texture of, mm, cream soup? (TMI I know ). Also, not sure why it’s changing color from green to yellow and now back to green? Would his reflux be getting better if he’s indeed intolerant? Also, would you expect an MSPI baby to be a lot more obviously fussy/colicky? My midwife said babies with these issues are usually miserable, crying non-stop, vomiting up A LOT, etc. and that he didn’t seem to fit the profile.
I know the only accurate way to test is to go dairy-free, but to be honest I really don’t want to put myself through it if I don’t have to, esp. with everyone telling me it’s not likely. I’m a picky eater with digestive issues myself (can’t handle raw fruit or veggies or beans, not a big meat eater, etc.), and I’m afraid of my nutrition suffering and compromising my supply . I’ll obviously do it if I need to, just don’t want to go through it needlessly, kwim? Can it be enough to just eliminate unprocessed milk if it’s just a mild intolerance or is it all-or-nothing? Also, if the occult blood test comes back negative, would it mean we’re pretty much in the clear or could it still show up later?
I’m just a bit lost since all online sources seem to just repeat the same list of symptoms without addressing nuances…any feedback from experienced parents would be much appreciated!Cookie 2010-03-25 00:04:07 March 29, 2010 at 8:09 am #66107hellbenntKeymaster/* Style Definitions */
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signs of mspi are, but are not limited to:gas: foul-smelling, painful gas
here are some informative threads:
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mso-bidi-language:#0400;}Erin’s sticky: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=12948&PID=105126#105126
More erin; https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13175&PID=106395#106395
Erin post: https://www.infantreflux.org/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=13576
hellbennt2010-03-29 08:09:27
March 29, 2010 at 5:10 pm #66109AnonymousInactiveThanks Laura! Wow…quite honestly, these posts terrified the hell out of me…
I’ve never even suspected babies could be THAT sensitive to everything you eat. These women truly deserve admiration, and as much as I’m ashamed to admit it, but there is no way I’d have the willpower to handle a diet like that to keep BFing…Anyways, I’m still finding it hard to tell whether my little guy has sensitivity to dairy…I guess I wonder how many of these symptoms need to be present for a diagnosis. And is there ever another, possibly benign reason, for small but fairly regular amounts of mucous in poop? His poop is back to the mustard-yellow color, and as far as I can tell is fairly close to the normal breastfed poop – but just somewhat runnier and slimier than it used to be, with some of that mucusy texture…could that just be normal?
For the record, I’ve been avoiding milk, cream etc. but still eating some cultured dairy – yogurt, cheese, butter. The poops went back from green to yellow a few days after I stopped the milk, so I don’t know whether that was a coincidence.He doesn’t have stinky gas, in fact not that much intestinal gas at all; what seems to bother him a lot more is burping/refluxing, it’s hard to burp him and when he starts crying suddenly for no apparent reason, it usually eventually follows with a big burp. BMs are not stnky either…he doesn’t have trouble passing them…but he does tend to grunt/strain/squirm at random times – doesn’t seem to be related to BMs or gas, maybe more to reflux? These are actually probably the only real signs of discomfort I see in him, and really not beyond what I would expect to see in a newborn…also seems to bother him more when he’s awake after feeds, if he falls asleep or at night the reflux doesn’t seem to affect him nearly as much.
His hemoccult test came back negative, thank goodness. So at this point all docs are basically telling me that he’s perfectly fine…but I can’t help but still have a niggle of worry. I guess my biggest concern is that if he is intolerant, I may be making it worse if I keep eating it? Other than the mucus, none of his other symptoms including reflux are really severe enough to somehow be abnormal – really, it all seems to be perfectly normal newborn behaviour. When reading boards on the topic, it seems that the constant in intolerance issues is a majorly unhappy baby – and this is not the case with us. So could it still be possible?
My other question is, how long would you generally expect something I ate to affect his BMs or reflux? Like if he’s spitting up a lot more one day, could it be related to what I ate that day or the day before? He has better days and worse days, but I’m really having trouble connecting it to my diet, esp. since I eat about the same day-to-day. It makes me wonder if even an elimination diet would be useful, since I can’t really rely on seeing improvement in symptoms as they seem to get better or worse on their own without change in my dairy intake. Maybe it’s not even dairy but something else like nuts or chocolate or seafood? Argg. I guess what I’m trying to figure out is, a) of course, whether it sounds like he is intolerant, and b) if at this point, it would be safe for me to just relax and continue to eat normally (maybe just eliminating straight milk/cream), without it posing a risk to his health in the case that he is indeed mildly sensitive to something my diet? If anyone has any input at all, I’d really appreciate it!
Cookie2010-03-29 17:19:39
March 29, 2010 at 6:56 pm #66110hellbenntKeymasterhmm…well the first thing I have to say is that with milk proteins it seems to be all or nothing…so if your lo (little one) is intolerant to milk protein then you would have to cut it ALL out, including ‘hidden’ dairy meaning milk IN things as ingredients- google ‘hidden dairy names’ and you’ll see whey rhennet (sp?), casein (sp?) etc.
it takes a good 2 to 3 weeks to get it out of your system…so to answer how long it takes to see the effects of what you eat, well that would be for you to see after you totally eliminate the protein (in this case milk) from your diet for a good two weeks. if you’re almost there, it shouldn’t be too hard and it’s *just* two weeks, lol. but really you can do it!as for anything else it takes 3-5 hrs to make it into your breastmilk- so for example let’s say it’s tomatoes (my lo reacted when I ate tomatoes and tomatoe products)- and you have spaghetti w/ sauce at 12 noon, then at 4:00 you feed baby then after that feeding baby is particularly upset and diaper following that feeding is different than usual, well there it is- it was the tomato sauce…I did the TED because I was desperate and it was ‘just’ two weeks. turns out it was not milk or soy for my lo, but I did discover that I could not eat tomatoes, citrus, eggplant (a weird one!) or tuna (another weird one!)
another thought: your lo is 10 weeks so thats a long enough time for the proteins to build up and for you to be seeing the results of that- so you ask what if you don’t change your diet and keep going the way you’re going? well, either things will stay the same or you will see them progressively getting worse as the offending proteins build up in the system and the body reacts…
SOME mucous is normal and SOME green diapers are normal! they just shouldn’t be all.the.time.
not sure I’m helping here, lol.
I’m actually going to be offline for a few days, so please don’t think I’m ignoring you! I’m going to send out the S.O.S. signal to other members so they can keep an eye on this thread/you, ok?
~laura
March 29, 2010 at 7:14 pm #66112AnonymousInactiveHi there! I was “sos’ed” by Laura. I’m not around much anymore, but have 2 former refluxers, and my son was intolerant to MANY foods.
I guess my advice at this point would be to keep a food journal. Sounds like a pain, but it really helped me a lot. That way, you would have direct evidence of what you ate and when. Like Laura said, most foods take about 4 hours to get to him, so you could probably figure out what could be bothering him.Also, sometimes OAL or oversupply could cause the green poos. If he is getting more lactose (the early foremilk) and not staying on the breast long enough to get to the good fatty hindmilk, it can turn the poos green, and even foamy or a little mucousy.March 30, 2010 at 5:33 pm #66113AnonymousInactiveThanks for the advice ladies!
I’ve been kind of keeping a food journal in my head…but I’m really having trouble pinpointing anything. Esp. with dairy, since I’ve been more careful with it, I only eat about the same amount each day (like a small portion of plain yogurt), yet DS acts differently on different days. If we are looking at a 4-hour or so time period, then I really can’t tie it down to anything at all, since if he’s having a worse day it usually starts off in the morning – after it’s been at least 12 hrs or so since I’ve eaten anything at all, and having fed him 2-3 times during the night with no issues. His level of happiness or discomfort/reflux will then usually remain about the same throughout the day.
His BMs tend to stay pretty much consistent, whether he is more or less refluxy – doesn’t seem related. They are not actually green – were slightly greenish for a week or so total, but been back to bright yellow for a couple of weeks now. The mucus is there sometimes but not every diaper – maybe every second or third, and never a lot. I’d say the biggest difference between his poops now and before is that they’re runnier and more ‘shiny’, the closest description I would say is like thin paint – whether before they were more like the texture of scrambled eggs.
Sheesh – never thought I’d be typing up such detailed descriptions of poop on message boards, lolThe thing is that if it wasn’t for the internet and finding out all that stuff about intolerances, I probably wouldn’t have been worried about him at all, since no symptoms in him really suggest anything out of the ordinary. I know several moms with reflux babies who eventually grew out of it with no food elimination necessary. In the ‘good ol’ days’ before the internet I would’ve just taken a diaper to the ped, got a stool test done, and would calm down once told that everything’s ok. But by reading up about it I keep looking for other symptoms in him and worrying.
I guess my biggest concern is that I’m worried that if I keep eating something he’s intolerant to, it may be setting him up for more serious allergies later on? Is that true, or is it just an immature digestion thing that he’ll grow out of?
I’m just finding this really frustrating too ’cause it seems this whole intolerance thing is like a secret society or something – none of the medical/BF sources talk about this at all, most say that babies are normally gassy/fussy/refluxy, have acne/cradle cap/eczema, etc. unrelated to mother’s diet, yet when you start reading people’s actual experiences on msg boards it sounds like so many breastfed babies have food issues. On the other hand, it makes me wonder how many of these cases really go undiagnosed, hence prob. not ending up causing serious issues in the future…or maybe they do and these are the kids that end up allergic to a whole bunch of stuff later on? Ugh…sorry for the rant, just wish this whole thing was a bit more straightforward and there was more info out there and some clear-cut answers…and it seems there really aren’t…
Cookie2010-03-30 17:40:37
March 30, 2010 at 5:38 pm #66114AnonymousInactiveOh, and I’m fairly sure I don’t have oversupply – in fact it seems to be more on the low side, hence DS does eat on both sides at a feeding – but I keep him on one side until I’m certain he emptied it out, he will switch to non-nutritive sucking and I let him at it for several more minutes before switching sides. He’s been eating like that since about 3 wks or so, and the poops only changed at 8 wks.
However, I did notice that when I pumped during the week when his poops were greenish, the milk was coming out looking a lot more watery than before, like almost a transparent blue – so maybe there’s more foremilk for some reason and he was getting too much?
March 30, 2010 at 6:26 pm #66115AnonymousInactiveIt is possible to have an inbalance between the fore and hind milk. I would check out http://www.kellymom.com It is a really great resource for nursing moms. She covers everything on there.
It sounds like you are really doing everything you can at this point. If, after keeping a diary of your foods, you still aren’t able to track anything and the doctor says his stool is fine, then I think I would just try to let it go – especially if he doesn’t seem all that uncomforable. AND IF nothing gets worse, of course.
Hang in there! I wish I had better advice for you. However, as you mentioned, there are never clear-cut answers to this reflux/intolerance rollercoaster.March 31, 2010 at 11:25 am #66117AnonymousInactiveit really sounds like you are dealing with normal newborn baby stuff. i’ve had 9 children and seen all kinds of diapers—–and most of them meant nothing. all babies reflux, but it is only a problem if they are in pain and not gaining weight. i don’t think a mucousy diaper every couple of days mens anything, either. i’ve seen diapers like that over the years without there being anything wrong with my child.
i found that after they changed to the “back to sleep” program, i had fussier babies for the first little while. usually around 3 months they seemed to settle down and be fine.
just remember that babies fuss and cry because they are babies—-not necessarily because there is anything particularly wrong. it is their only way of communicating with us. it is when the fussing and crying become excessive that you need to worry—other wise, just go with the flow and remember that they will change from day to day. just when you think you have them figured out and on a schedule—something will change.
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