Home › Forums › Infant Reflux Support › Boo-Hoo! I need YOU! › When do you give UP?
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March 14, 2006 at 6:22 pm #3844AnonymousInactive
Ok so we will never give up on our babies…….but I am about ready to scream/cry whatever.
Christian has been in oral/motor therapy now for 5 months and we have made little to no progress. He is starting to have panic attacks and totally freak out anytime the therapist goes near his mouth to do the exercises. He barely lets me get in his mouth when we are “playing”. Now the ST sent us to the OT and they are indicating that it is now SPD (sensory processing dysfunction/disorder) and they want me to brush him with a surgical scrub brush every two hours, perform joint decompressions every two hours, on top of the oral motor exercises that we do. All the while he is screaming like he is being tortured.
He has been sick now – holding nothing down since Thursday – finally got an antibiotic shot yesterday and another today. The food is mostly staying down. The GI said – slow his feeds or run them longer. Nobody seems to care at all that he is not making any progress.
I WANT TO SCREAM! I want him to take a break from all this therapy and let him be. Not worry about his calorie intake anymore and just think that God will gear him into the right path when it is time. I am personally afraid to go on antidepressants – they take my edge off and I become too mellow and I need to fight for my sons health right now.
What would you do – take a break from the therapy – force more issues – just wait it out? Just looking for some guidance. Sorry for the vent. Thanks.
March 14, 2006 at 6:49 pm #3848AnonymousInactivealmost sounds like therapy is doing more harm than good. i don’t keep up with thingw really well—-why is he in therapy?
March 14, 2006 at 7:21 pm #3851AnonymousInactiveChristian has tongue coordination issues and over hypersensitive gag reflex. We have been working to desensitize the reflex and to teach him how to move food in his mouth properly.
At this point he is barely on stage 2 purees, we are working on dissolvable puffs, veggie sticks, cheese puffs, biter biscuits. He seems to gag on the solids. He is sensitive to flavors as well. He has never really taken a bottle properly – his suck is weak and uncoordinated. He has never aspirated, just the reflux since birth. Personally I think the reflux caused pain and the memory of that pain is associated with all eating. The gagging and vomitting with solids is also a painful memory as it comes out his nose – so he frequently refuses solids too.
My little man is the happiest kid on the block – unless he has food offered. The therapy seems to be torture for him and it hasn’t really been progressing the way I had hoped/dreamed. I love him and don’t like watching him hurt or stress (doesn’t do wonders for the reflux). He has been through so much already.
Thanks for listening.
March 14, 2006 at 8:28 pm #3859AnonymousInactiveI may be out of line but your son is just a month younger than mine and only in this last week has he been taking solids without choking. I think you might be on to something when you say that he needs a break. Our doctors have been great when it came to the solid issue. Some babies aren’t ready until a little later. We tried solids almost every month and no luck. Finally he started eating and has no choking. Now if you would have asked me a month ago I would have told you that I don’t think he will ever be able to eat solids. Maybe he is just one of those babies who needs a little more time. Plus right now he gets all he needs from his formula.
March 14, 2006 at 8:49 pm #3862AnonymousInactiveYou are not out of line. That is good to hear that your son is moving along that gives me hope. My goal was/is cheerios or puffs by 1st birthday. I really wanted him to have his birthday cake AND eat it too. At this point I think ice cream cake with be the way it goes. HE LOVES ice cream.
The therapy just doesn’t seem to be making a difference. I just hate torturing him. I wonder if this torture is adding to his negative memories. I think he does better with “feeding” skills sitting at the mcdonalds and I hand him a french fry and bites of ice cream to see what he can do. I figure – they have mops and buckets to clean up the mess there just as I do at home. Besides – he sees everybody else having fun he enjoys it.
Thanks for your advice/insight.
March 14, 2006 at 9:19 pm #3864AnonymousInactiveLaura, I’m so sorry that things are so rough right now. I too have been disappointed with Hailey’s lack of eating. It can be so hard. I really think the key to feeding therapy is to find a way to offer them things that they can handle in a very non-threatening environment. I really don’t like the idea of brushing etc., although I understand the theory behind it. I just don’t know many babies-reflux or not- that will allow you to stick a brush in their mouth. Same for the joint compressions, although I understand the theory. I really don’t know what I would do regarding those treatments. Can you get a second opinion? I think that the most important thing is to make feeding as pleasurable and stress-free as possible, for both of you. I would probably tell the therapists your concerns, and see if they agree to take a break from the brushing etc. Good luck. I really hope that things improve for you soon. I understand how exhausting and stressful it can be.
March 14, 2006 at 9:23 pm #3866AnonymousInactiveOK, I wrote a huge post and now it is gone! ANyway, the gist of it was that we have done a lot of therapy with Dylan since the beginning. Being a preemie, there were a lot of “bad touches”. Feeding tubes, IV’s etc….. Whenever we did a therapy, it was always a good experience. We did not allow the ones that made him upset. I have never met Christian, and I don’t know if all therapies that are not enjoyable are bad, but for us, when it came to Dylan, we decided that we wanted his emotional development to be a positive experience as well as promoting his physical development.
I guess what I am saying is, you need to make a decision that you are comfortable with. We did a lot of similar things where we let him eat fries, or chicken nuggets, or whatever made feeding a “positive” experience. We were done with the negative experiences. Dylan was not on the charts until after a year old (being preemie was a big part of that), but once he caught up and feeding was exciting I am proud to say Dylan is now in the 60th percent for weight and 50th for height. He has truely caught up and it was in his own time.
You are a great mother to do everything you can to help him, and then to question what is good and what you are not comfortable with! I think if you go with your heart, you are doing what is best.
It took a long time for us to come to the realization that some developmental things Dylan was going to go at his own pace and for his own emotional development, we had to back off and not worry about pushing him to catch up to some milestone someone else told us he should be doing. He does attend the special ed preschool in our district and is much more accepting to an oral motor program than he was at Christian’s age. He also resisted so we stopped. Dylan is a picky eater, but he is definitely eating enough and is a healthy three year old. He is definitley catching up but at his pace and we are letting him set the tone. I am fully confident when he gets to Kindergarten he will be in the same place as all the other children.
Hang in there! You are doing a great job and you will make the right decision. Always know, too, that you can change your mind. If you decide to take a break from the therapy, you can always go back…..
(edit) I forgot to mention that I know that not all things that make them upset are bad for them. For example, Dylan screamed when they did the tube surgery, but he needed in order to hear better, etc. I think you know what I mean. So it is hard to make the decisions sometimes because some things that upset our babies, can make them better, but you will make the right decision. OK, now I am rambling!
monty1232006-3-14 21:32:57
March 14, 2006 at 10:18 pm #3869AnonymousInactiveThis is what I think, and it is only my opinion…I think that he does need to continue therapy, it does make a difference. In these children, early intervention is the key. But, that being said, you may want to deek out a new therapist. It sounds as if he needs a good OT that specializes in sensory integration therapy, the same goes for the ST. A lot of his gagging issues may be sensory related and if you get a good OT/ST team, they can really help you overcome many hurdles. It takes time, but you will see a difference if you have a good team working for your child.
Is your child in private therapy or is he with ECI? I ask this b/c in our expiriance, with private therapists you can find and use the therapist that specializes in what your child needs.
I dont mean to come on so strong with the pro therapy standpoint, but I am a firm believer that if you start earlier, the more chance that you have for overcoming the issues, or at least making them more manageable.
March 15, 2006 at 2:26 am #3873AnonymousInactiveLaura
I kind of agree with Janice on this one. I think that some kids do need the extra help…Matthew has different issues than Christian, but he also has a really really hard time with food. As soon as he sees the spoon, he wants to get up and run away, starts screaming, shouting. Well, we do feed him anyway and we try to calm him, and then start again, and he freaks out etc. While i suffer, i think that it is necessary to help them sometimes overcome their fears.
But if you are not happy with the people themselves, then maybe do look for someone else.
I am so so sorry you are going through this. But he will get there. I am sure he will and he will be the proudest baby around. I know that sometimes i want to give up but as i said somewhere else, these babies need us and we are all they have.
March 15, 2006 at 8:26 am #3877AnonymousInactiveLaura, I just wanted add that I am not suggesting that you stop therapy. I think that therapy is important and the earlier the better. But as far as feeding therapy goes, I think that they already have so many negative associations that it is important to try to keep it as pleasurable as possible. As far as the gagging, I think it can come from SPD as well as a lack of experience with eating, a fear of new textures, and a hypersensitive gag. Overall, I would discuss your concerns with your therapists and see what they say. You are doing a great job.
March 15, 2006 at 9:04 am #3880AnonymousInactiveI forgot to mention about the brushing. We brush Samantha and do joint compressions every 2 hours. You do not see a differance immediately, but over time it does help. Samantha now asks for her “brush” It really is a good tool to use. Also, it helps us to sing a song while it is going on “I’m brushing, I’m brushing, I’m brushing Samantha’s legs” and I change it with each body part. And when I do the joint compressions I singsong the counting.
Janice2006-3-15 9:8:38
March 15, 2006 at 10:07 am #3889AnonymousInactiveFYI, on the other board I frequent for children born with ea/tef (all have massive silent reflux). NONE of them are eating table foods before they are one. NONE of them had cake for their first birthday. I would always offer my son food, but never force him to eat. I really TRUELY believe that their is a chemical/ph imbalance in refluxers stomachs (maybe causing them to reflux?) but that same imbalance makes it difficult to digest food. It seems so obvious to me from what I’ve witnessed with my son and from what I’ve heard with others. Our little ones are smarter than you think. They aren’t READY to digest foods that’s why they don’t eat – NOT because they have an oral aversion or something. If you just “wait and see”, I bet you that – out of the blue- one day he’ll start eating around 13 months old like he’s been eating for ever. I have heard several stories of this “overnight, out-of-the blue” changes in eating. You can’t force a baby to walk and I believe that you can’t force a baby to eat solids if it doesn’t want to and its digestive systems isn’t ready.
Just remember, everyone thought Columbus was crazy for saying the earth was round. It doesn’t have to be written in a medical text to be true. Maybe people are so focused on the oral thing that they forget that there is a reason that 2 month old babies don’t eat solids – THEY CAN’T DIGEST THEM!
You don’t need more stress in your life, don’t worry about the solids. Take a break and see what happens. My son started #1 foods at 6 months (wanted nothing to do with them prior, clamped mouth), started #2 foods at 9 months, started #3 and soft table foods at 13 months and not a day sooner! He didn’t eat cheerios until he was 18 months old – those things are HARD! He started Gerber baby puffs at 9 months old.
I also wanted to add that EVERYTHING over-stimulated my son, he couldn’t have toys with sound until he was over 1 year old, he’d just scream! I know that the was over-sensitive because he got so much less sleep than other babies. He never napped during the day until he was 3.5 months old. A babies brain can’t develop without sleep – and therefore they rest of his body can’t develop unless they get sleep. I attribute all of my sons developmental delays to lack of sleep. It takes him longer to reach his goals because he hasn’t had as many “training” sleep hours as other children. My son has never had therapy of any kind and has always been behind in reaching “milestones” but has always caught up on his own and still well within the range of ‘whats normal’. You know when you’re overtired – you don’t want to eat, or be touched, or hear loud music, you just want to SLEEP.
lansima2006-3-15 10:15:0
March 15, 2006 at 11:06 am #3898AnonymousInactiveI believe that the therapy can work. I was the one that pushed it – Christian’s doctors didn’t believe in it. At first he thought it was fun – no he just screams for the entire hour. I am going to keep it up until we meet with the GI next month – but watching him tormented kills me.
Janice – we are going private for our therapy. Through the children’s hospital. We are having an eval with the state run program – just as a second opinion.
Marsha – I am always joking his first words will be hamburger please – I CAN DO IT! I am working on my patience, it is just so hard watching him struggle to get the necessary calories to thrive. I know it is just as frustrating for him…he is hungry – just doesn’t know what to do with that hunger pain.
Thanks for all your advise.
March 15, 2006 at 11:38 am #3899AnonymousInactiveHi there,
It has been forever since I’ve posted on this board, as Emma has moved beyond reflux issues…lol…but had a fundo, so not much to say here. But, a friend sent me this link & asked me to reply. I have a lot of personal experience with Emma in this arena. First & foremost, I want to say that you are not alone & that I truly do understand the struggle it can be to get your baby to eat. It is so stressful–something that should be so natural is torture to your child.
I also need to add a disclaimer here (lol!)… Emma has several health issues, & currently the docs feel she has a mitochondrial disorder. It has been a long 22 months, I’ve seen Emma go through so much since day one. The only thing I’ve really been able to do (aside from take her to docs & give her meds) is the therapy. It’s the only hands-on way that dh & I can impact Emma’s health, development, & future. We are uber-believers in early intervention, it is the soapbox I never come off of. We’ve seen the changes in our Emma, & we’ve been told time & time again by the doctors that we are way ahead of things. Had we not started therapy as early as we did, & stuck with it, Emma would be much more delayed than she is now. It DOES make a difference. And, it is so rewarding, knowing that YOU had a hand in it. So…here are my thoughts on your situation…
Emma has been in therapy since she was about 6 months old. She receives OT, PT, & ST. We’ve worked with ECI & she’s also been in private therapy. Through private therapy (& this could just be my state or county…some ECI programs are great) we have seen the biggest changes in Emma. ECI seemed to come & observe her, not do much therapy. Private therapy has been much more intensive. And, yes, at times harder to watch. However, it has made such a difference.
Yes, as some ladies have said each child develops differently & ‘torturing’ via therapy could create negative consequences in the future. However, if the ST is good, she will keep both of those things in mind. Therapists go by strict guidelines regarding who does & doesn’t need therapy–they won’t do therapy unless your child truly needs it. Also, a ST should be very careful about negative responses to food, oral motor exercise, etc. They should come up with fun activities, toys, etc. to introduce to your son. IF he is still not progressing, you may want to try a new therapist OR switch to every other week. I WOULD NOT quit therapy…it is KEY at his age to develop oral motor skills. This goes beyond minor eating issues that some reflux kids have. What Emma suffers from is beyond that…she is orally defensive, has hypotonia, & SPD. So, the gagging is one thing…but all of her other oral motor challenges are neurologically related, not because of her reflux.
The other issue is that since your son has a feeding tube, nature is not leading the way in needing food. So, he is more resistant. His tummy doesn’t send the signals of hunger, which halts the normal process of digestion & eating. That is why it is VERY important that you stick with his oral motor program. If he did not have a feeding tube, my feelings would be different, most likely. But as long as he has a feeding tube, his body will need help to stimulate the desire to eat & be okay with oral motor stimulation.
Emma will be 2 in May & we’ve been on a roller coaster as far as eating goes. She’ll have periods where she’ll enjoy eating (limited foods mind you) to days/weeks where she won’t eat a thing. Drinking is a bigger issue, she will only consume 2-4 oz of liquid per day. And, she refuses Neocate even flavored. Throw in a cold or stomach bug & forget about it…Emma absolutely refuses anything orally. She DOES have a feeding tube & gets all of her meaningful calories via that. Now that she is older, we give her lollipops, sour gel on her NUK brush, Doritos, & any other odd things she’ll eat. For Emma, she requires high flavor (usually either sour or spicy) in order for her mind to register & want the food. So, she hates babyfood, pudding, etc. Where we are right now is to allow her to eat the things she likes, & then we’ll incorporate some softer foods with those. We want her to enjoy food, enjoy eating. For a while, we were doing a form of therapy where the ST would quickly give her a spoonful of pudding, then allow her to pick out a toy, then spoonful, toy, etc. She’d get upset at first, but then was okay with it. However, our ST became worried that at Emma’s age, a negative connotation toward food might develop. So, we are no longer doing that. We play lots of games with food, pudding painting, singing, making snowmen out of marshmallows, etc. ALL so that Emma likes food, this, in time, should make her accept trying new foods & consuming larger amounts of it.
As far as SPD goes, it is not a quack diagnosis, as some believe. In some children, their nervous systems really are so off as to cause severe sensory issues. Unless you have experienced SPD firsthand, you can’t truly understand it. So, please, if therapists are believing this is what it is, think about it & find out more info. It will help you greatly in the long run. It is beyond tantrums, refusals to eat or bathe… Emma screams bloody murder in her bath. She gets about a 2 minute dunk & then onto her hair washing in which I have to wrap her like an infant & hold her while washing her at the sink. She still screams, but she cannot hurt herself while I’m washing her. She pulls her hair out or will bang her head on a wall, tile floor, etc. if she is upset. She will scream if I put overalls on her, she will not be able to move if her clothes have ruffles or collars. And, I mean, freezes there, rubbing her clothes & crying (only plain cotton clothes now!). She zones out in public places, to the point of being practically unresponsive. She will sometimes be awake until 3 a.m. seeking out sensory…rocking, banging her head, bouncing in her crib, etc. Sorry to go on & on, but I often feel like people think SPD is made up, but it is NOT. It creates a ripple effect of issues in a child’s life. We brush Emma, we do not do the joint compressions she was too upset by them. So, OT said just do the brushing. It DOES NOT hurt the child…it is more about deep pressure than ‘brushing.’ You use a brush so it is gentle, but you want pressure not tickling. Most kids like it. Emma does, at first she wasn’t thrilled with it. But, now she likes it. We started out every 2 hours, we still try to do that, but lately she enjoys massages, so we do both. I originally thought the brushing would be so time consuming. It should not take more than a couple of minutes once you get the hang of it. It probably takes us a minute or so now.
If you feel & it appears the therapists do, that he does have SPD, please pick up “The Out of Sync Child” book, it is indispensable. Does your son have other developmental delays? Has he ever seen a neurologist? When & why did he get his PEG? I’m just wondering, because if his oral motor issues are part of a bigger issue/disorder, then you definitely would NOT want to change his therapy plans. While this is a great place to come for opinions, please always seek out your doctor and/or therapist(s) before you make a final decision. For Emma, we have been told she will need therapy for some time. This is because of her history & due to her probable mito diagnosis. So, we’ve just been reserved to the fact that this is are reality & will be down the road. For Emma, stopping therapy would be harmful & really alter how her future will be. We are giving her the tools now & early so that hopefully whatever her diagnosis, she can achieve goals thought to be impossible.
Lastly, PLEASE voice your concerns with your therapist(s) & pediatrician. They know what is going on physically, developmentally, & emotionally with your son. Let them know how YOU feel & the (very reasonable) concerns you have. They will not think anything wrong with how you are feeling, & (I’m sure) will offer alternatives & suggestions. I know that you yourself are probably wiped out, trust me, I’ve been there & I’m sure I’ll get there again. I would try to find a support group or even therapy for yourself, antidepressants are only good if combined with a therapy program (my take on it). If it comes to the point where a therapist/doc thinks you need the medicine, please take it. Yes, it will take the edge off, but it shouldn’t cloud your judgment regarding your son & his health. If it does, they’ll switch you to another medicine. I am not on one now, but have been in the past, so again, from personal experience! Please take time out for yourself. For a while, my life was all my girls, & so much of that was consumed with doctor appts, meds, tube feeds, therapy, etc. I was so stressed out. Finally, I realized I wasn’t helping anyone if I wasn’t helping myself. So, I now make an effort to take even an hour or so to myself. Maybe just for a walk, grab a coffee, drinks with friends, go to a bookstore, etc. Or, just a loooong shower (lol!). Dh & I make an effort to go out on a few dates each month…even if that means holding hands on the couch watching TV!! Please make that time for yourself (& for you & dh) & you’ll be rejuvenated, ready to face the world.
Things will get better, they will. Unfortunately, no one can say for sure when. The key is that at your son’s young age, a positive impact can be made sooner than if you were to hold off until he is older. The oral motor stuff (believe it or not) only gets tougher as they get older—they become picky toddlers only adding to the mix. But, on the other hand, the therapy itself becomes easier because they can make games of therapy, give rewards, etc. So, it will get better!! I would stick with it, even if you decide to go only 1 or 2 x per month.
I apologize for going on & on… It just seemed to me that you are dealing with issues that go beyond reflux-related eating issues, & that your son has other health concerns that need to be taken into consideration. I hope I was not rude at all, I tried not to be! I’m just very passionate about this.
Take care!!! (((HUGS))) to you & your son!
March 15, 2006 at 12:23 pm #3903AnonymousInactiveOne thing I wanted to add, not just for Laura, but as a post to all…
There’s a big difference between being a little behind in some milestones than officially “developmentally delayed.” The milestones in magazines & books have a 3-6 month ‘grace period’ on them, meaning it is still ‘normal’ if your child achieves them (some) up to 6 months later. To be ‘developmentally delayed’ requires a doctor’s diagosis (in Emma’s case, this first came from her pediatrician, then reaffirmed by her neurologist as well as slower brain wave rhythms on her EEG). Not only was Emma not achieving developmental goals (at the time rolling over & sitting by herself), but she had low tone, was not visually tracking, & lacked most age-approrpriate reflexes. This was all very scary, at first the docs were not sure if Emma’s issues were progressive (meaning she would not develop further) or static.
Thankfully, Emma continues to make progress, at her own pace. While we can’t do much about nature…certain things she will acquire only when her brain & body are ready…we can give her the tools to help her when she is ready for the next skill. For example, at almost 2 years old, Emma cannot get from her back to sitting without rolling over. She rolls over like a 1 year old, not like a toddler. So, we are working on strengthening her core & also showing her how to sit up from her back. We place our hands in certain places & try to teach her how to do it. We’ve been doing this for 3 months so far, she hasn’t done it on her own yet. BUT, at least when the strength is there & her body can physically do it, she’ll know how to.
A child really does not need therapy (other than play!) unless he/she is truly developmentally delayed. In Christian’s case, however, even though the docs weren’t pushing for therapy (some are not progressive in this area), Laura felt it necessary AND the therapists agreed. Therapists, private or state, will not start a therapy program for any child who does not clinically qualify for it. It is a waste of time & money if they did, plus the insurance companies would not cover it. When you first began therapy, the therapists do a complete evaluation, that is sent to the ins company who based on that decides coverage.
To Laura…I hopefully understand things a bit more now, after your last post…It seems your son indeed needs the therapy & can benefit from it. So even though Christian may not be officially developmentally delayed & does not have other issues that would require other therapies, I still feel that with the gtube, he’s going to need a lot of help to accept foods orally & ST is one sure-fire way to help with that. Another thing to consider, especially when you meet with the GI, is how long do you expect Christian to be on the gtube. He may have advice on adjusting feeds to encourage a little bit of hunger & see if that helps.
In Emma’s case, we originally thought the gtube would be in for a few months, simply to spark her growth & help her through a rough patch (kidney & aspiration issues, combined with GERD & FTT). However, now with the probable mito dx, we are no longer looking at removing the gtube. She saw her GI doc this week, & he wants us to continue with what we’re doing–30 oz Neocate via gtube each day, & let her eat orally whatever she will–we don’t see him again for 6 months. She may always need the gtube, so it’s no longer a goal of 2 more months, etc. & have her weaned from it.
That affects a lot, whether or not Christian has a time set to remove the gtube. Our plan prior to a few months ago when all this changed, was to get her eating orally as much as possible & get the tube feeds down. If the docs feel Christian will need this long-term, than you can probably be less aggressive with trying to have him eat foods. Perhaps work with the bottle, oral motor toys, & trying soft foods (if he prefers hamburger, etc.), so that he does not lose that skill & desire. Then, down the road, you can slowly ramp up the therapy & what goals are expected. It all depends on how long he will have the gtube, what the docs expect, & also if other issues (cognitively or physically) arise.
We saw the most progress with Emma as far as oral motor goes after she was a year old. It is still up or down, & she is nowhere near where she should be…but, the first few months we saw almost no change (we were with ECI, then switched to private, because she was not progressing). A lot of it could just be Christian’s age & it will take a few more months before you see the progress.
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